Kira Roessler    |   Ron Reyes   |   Dez Cadena

Ron Reyes

This interview was conducted in late October, 2009 at Scratch Records in Vancouver, BC. To the best of my knowledge, this was Ron's first interview about his time in Black Flag since he walked off the stage and quit the band in 1981. Ron was a reluctant sell on the Barred For Life concept, and while sitting in a cafe in Bozeman, Montana a week before arriving in Vancouver, I got the most important email ever. Ron, after a few "I am not sure that I am interested" emails, was granting me permission to interview him. When Ron entered the record store he browsed the vinyl selection and casually approached me as I was shooting photographs in a corner. With a cameraman ready, Ron told me his story. Someday, maybe I will post the video of the interview, but for now this is the literal transcription of what transpired on that rainy, gray, October morning. Lightly edited, nothing was removed. After the interview, Ron entertained questions from a small crowd that had gathered around. As dark approached, I gave him a ride back to his house, where we discussed a number of topics that I agreed not to bring up in the actual interview. I've said this in a number of subsequent interviews, that this one interview really did change my life in so many ways. Not only was Ron Reyes (aka Chavo Pederast) my favorite Black Flag singer, but afterwards we became friends. Remember, this all happened in 2009, roughly 4 years before Black Flag would reband with Ron as its frontman. Enjoy the read. While not the longest Barred For Life interview, it s filled with great perspectives by a man who lasted only 6 months in the vocalist position before walking off stage and quitting Black Flag.

Ron ReyesTell me a little bit about your involvement in the early Los Angeles Punk scene.

Yeah, well, I certainly was a part of that. I was fortunate enough to experience it in the early days at the Masque and the Whiskey, and places like that. And I got to see all of the great bands coming out of LA at that time, X and The Germs and The Screamers, and all of those bands. First and foremost I was a fan.

I loved music before that and had listened to a lot of the same stuff that a lot of people listened to, a lot of the glam stuff from the 70ís and rock bands like the MC5 and The Stooges. Then this friend of mine from school was telling me about this scene that was developing in Hollywood. By that time I had already been hearing about this new music that was happening in New York, and over in England, but I just never imagined that anything like that could be happening on the west coast of California.

So she told me that there was this place called The Masque, and that I should go and check it out. So I started to go to gigs there and see these new bands that were coming up, and was seeing this energy that was coming out of out of nowhere, and it caught my attention totally. Like I said, first and foremost I was just this rabid fan of all those early bands, and in particular the LA bands like X and The Germs and the Screamers, and the Avengers, who were from up the coast a bit. They were fantastic, too.

We hear a lot about Punks from that era and that area coming principally from broken homes and broken families, which followed this exodus to California to tap into this suburban utopian dream. Would you describe that as being somewhat indicative of your life, or did you have a different experience?

I would say that is pretty much right on. I was born in Puerto Rico and spent the first couple of years in New York, as most Puerto Ricans do. I donít know, somehow Puerto Ricans sort of filter through New York, but then we moved to the west coast to get that American Dream happening.

My mom was a single parent, and so she moved my brother and me out to the west coast. She did the best that she could as a single parent through my early years, and when I was like ten or eleven my step-dad came on the scene. He was a very blue-collar worker, but most of my clothes came from the Salvation Army, so we werenít well off.

My mom, thinking that she was doing what was best for me at the time, put me into this school that wasnít in the school district where we lived. We lived in the district for Redondo Beach High, which would have been a place where there was a lot more trouble going on with gangs and drugs and alcohol, and all of that kind of stuff. She wanted me to go to another school, so I ended up going to Mira Coasta High in Manhattan Beach, California, which is pretty preppy and pretty straight. It was definitely a bit more of an upper class school, and this was just terrible for me. Socially and culturally, I was a complete outcast, and the plan just backfired because, while I was probably in a safer environment to a degree, I didnít have any friends. So, yeah it just backfired.

So I didnít have a broken family but in many ways it was as dysfunctional as the next. I had good parents. I cannot say anything bad about my mom and my dad.

When you say that you were an outcast, how aware were you of that? How did it manifest itself?

Prior to my years in high school we moved around a lot. Like I said, I was born in Puerto Rico, then lived in New York, and then Florida, and California. Then we moved back to Florida, and then Puerto Rico, and back to Los Angeles. We just moved around so much and I went to so many schools. Honestly, I went through more schools then grades. That said, I just never developed any significant friends at all.

No matter where I was I was always the new kid; particularly in the later years. When I was doing to Manhattan Beach I was kind of the invisible minority. I donít think that there were any black kids there, and I was probably only one of the Hispanics, so I felt a little out of place for that reason. Also, just culturally, my family was poor and my clothes came from Salvation Army, and I was going to this school in Manhattan Beach, which was kind of like a Beverly Hills 90210 kind of school. It was terrible. I didnít have any friends in high school and so it was pretty hard.

You became friends with Dez Cadena around that time, right?

†I met Dez around 78 or 79, the late 70ís, and we were neighbors in Redondo Beach at the time. I was staying in the garage in my brotherís house, having just dropped out of high school. I dropped out of Mira Costa my senior year. I could have easily passed but I just dropped out. I was into surfing and I used to spend a whole lot more time at the beach than at the books.

Dez and his family, Ozzy and his wife and sister, had this yard sale. I think that Ozzy would have a yard sale at his house every weekend, and they lived like three houses down. So one day I was just walking by the yard sale, and I am pretty sure that I must have heard some of Dezís music playing in the background, and so we just started talking. One thing led to another and we found out that we liked a lot of the same music. He had all of the records that I really liked, and since we lived three houses apart weíd get together and listen to records and Rodney-on-the-ROQ. I would spend nights over at his house listening to Rodney play all of these songs, and I think that is where we heard the first Black Flag single, Wasted. I donít remember exactly but I think that this was 78íish.

So you became friends with Dez, and you were living in Hermosa, and how did you find your way into your local scene?

Hmm, the Hermosa Beach scene, how did I get involved in that? That came directly out of my friendship with Dez. We were living in Redondo Beach, which is just next door to Redondo Beach, and we started hearing about this band Panic, which would soon become Black Flag, and we would go to see them rehearse. By this time both Dez and I were going to see shows in Hollywood, like the Germs and X and the Weirdoes, and stuff. These were all great bands, but they all had an artsie-fartsie background, where Black Flag was totally intense in a way that we hadnít heard before or could have anticipated, orÖ It was just so different. Greg Ginnís guitar playing was just so intense.

So we just started hanging out at their rehearsal place, which was in Hermosa Beach, and at that point there really wasnít that much of a scene. There were bands like The Last that were from Hermosa, and the Descendents were probably just starting out at that time, too. So there wasnít so much of a scene yet, but when Keith quit the band, or got kicked out of the band, and I still donít know the whole story on that one, and Greg asked me to join I immediately picked up my bags from Redondo Beach and walked over to Hermosa Beach and rented a tiny space at this church called the Arts and Crafts Community Church. So I kind of moved into Hermosa Beach.

The place that I rented soon became a sort of a hang out. It became the South Bayís hangout for people that were into the same kind of music we were into, and people could just come and hang out. There was graffiti on the walls and there were records playing all of the time, and other bands started setting up their equipment there. So now there were other bands practicing there. Other bands started coming in. Redd Cross came in, who were called The Tourists at the time. And so my place became the nucleus of that scene, and as I remember it things started to come together around the church. Things expanded outward from there.

You got into Redd Cross before you were in Black Flag. How did that come about?

I got into Redd Cross because I was living at the church. Black Flag had played the infamous Pollywog Park gig in Manhattan Beach, and the opening band was this band called The Tourists. The Tourists started hanging out at the church, and they needed a drummer. So Jeff and Steve and Greg Hetson needed a drummer. To this day I donít remember what happened to their drummer, but they asked me to play drums. I wasnít a drummer. I didnít know how to play the drums but I did own a drum set, so I said, ďSure, why not,Ē and I joined the band. Within a week or two we were in the studio recording. This was after the first Redd Cross EP had come out, and after theyíd been picked up by Posh Boy, and so we were recording the first 12-inch record.

Like I said, I wasnít a drummer. Talent had nothing to do with anything. At the time it was all just a state of mind that I was in, and the thing about it, the beauty of it, was that the Redd Cross stuff was just so Punk Rock. It was so, like, here are these guys, and here is Steve who is like 12-years-old, and they are from the beach. Nothing was defined yet. Things were just starting and so there wasnít this template of what a Punk Rock band is supposed to sound like in California, or what they should look like. There wasnít a template. There wasnít a blueprint yet, so you have these kids from Hawthorne coming. And there is Steve and Jeff, who are just beach kids with pimples and shit, and they just love these Punk Rock bands, but they are just like groupies or whatever.

Nobody asked me to try out or anything like that. Nobody asked me about my chops or anything like that. It just wasnít anything like that, you know? We were all just part of something and nothing else mattered. I was terrible. I was absolutely terrible. I knew one beat, and that was kind of a KNACK, My Sharona, beat that used to drive people crazy. I had no clue what I was doing, but I had energy and we were just loving it. Other people were digging it and that is all that really mattered.

I wasnít in Redd Cross very long. My involvement with Redd Cross and Black Flag is almost like one of their songs. It was like this two-minute song with so much energy packed into it. It wasnít about quantity, it was about quality I guess. It was just this energy that lasted for just a moment and then it was gone, and then something else came along to replace it. So I wasnít in Redd Cross all that long. We never toured, except for that we played a lot of gigs in the South Bay area. We did become media darlings particularly because of Steve being this 12-year-old, and not being old enough to be in the bars where we were playing, and he was cute and everything. The music was great, too. It was just kind of pop but it was totally Redd Cross; just totally unique.

To be honest with you, and Iíve been asked this before, but I donít know what happened with me and Redd Cross. Did I quit or was I kicked out, I just donít know, but there just came a time when I wasnít in the band anymore and I started to hang out in Hollywood more. I would hang out at this place called the Hollywood Western Building, and I got into some bands there playing drums. Then, one day Black Flag called me and I answered the call, and then I moved back to Hermosa Beach.

I was still living at the church during this time, but I was spending most of my time in Hollywood. I didnít have a car or anything like that, so I had to take a bus, or find a way there, and so I would stay in Hollywood when I got there. I was spending a lot of time there. Remember, there really wasnít a thriving South Bay scene. There was Hollywood, and all of the bands that I liked at that time were Hollywood bands, so it was natural for me to gravitate that way.

It is interesting that Black Flag resisted that. They were very proud to say that they were from Hermosa Beach. I donít know if it was a conscious thing or not. I would say probably not, but they resisted the temptation to be part of the Hollywood scene, so if I wanted to be in Black Flag I had to come back to Hermosa.

What were the conditions that got you into Black Flag?

We were all friends. We were all part of the same South Bay community. The scene there really wasnít defined yet. Nobody really even knew of this community unless they were part of it, but we were all friends. At that point I was starting to go to all of the Black Flag shows when Keith was singing. Me and Dez were like their best fans. We were at all of the shows. We were up front and getting crazy, and so it was just kind of like this family that was gathering. I doubt that Greg or Chuck would have even considered going to Hollywood to find a singer when there was a guy right there that knew all of the songs.

Again, it wasnít about trying out, and it wasnít like they held auditions. Greg just asked me if I wanted to be in the band. To me it was like, ďOf course. I love the band.Ē And the fact that Keith was no longer in the band didnít even phase me because I didnít think that mattered. It wasnít like, ďOh, no, a founding member is out of the band!Ē To me it was like there was always going to be this rapid change, and that things would always be changing and evolving and moving in different directions. So it didnít really phase me at all.

You lasted about 6 months in Black Flag, but in that time you recorded the Jealous Again EP and were interviewed for Penelope Shpheerisí film, Decline of Western Civilization. For a while there you were THE face of Black Flag.

You know, if you were to ask me how long that I was in Black Flag without telling me how long I was in Black Flag, I would say that I was in Black Flag for two years because so much happened in such a short period of time. Now we are so many years removed, and volumes have been said about the work ethic of Black Flag, but even at that very early period of time there was so much going on that it seemed that Greg and Chuck, but mostly Greg, was so into moving this thing forward. He was planning the next gig, the next song, the next flier, and he was putting together the next rehearsal, writing new music, you know?

In that six-month period there was just so much going on. We did a couple of west coast tours, recorded an EP, which was actually going to be the first full-length album but was reduced down to an EP. So we did all the recording, we did the movie, Decline of Western Civilization, and by that time the scene in South Bay developed. Suddenly things were coming in from the Orange County scene and it was filtering through the church, and we were taking notice of what was going on in the South Bay, particularly at the church. Things were really starting to happen. So much was happening, so if you ask me exactly how time was passing Iíd have to say that it was years, when in fact it was a very short period of time.

After six months you were out of Black Flag, and since then, maybe more than with any other singer, there are dozens of stories of how you exited. How did you end up leaving the band?

So after this whirlwind of six months it came to an end. It is very strange. We had toured a couple times up and down the coast and we had been to Vancouver, BC, a couple of times, and I just really fell in love with Vancouver. We had played in places like San Francisco and Seattle, but Vancouver really, really resonated with my spirit and where I was at the time.

I began to see thing in LA start to fragment. There was the Hollywood scene, the South Bay scene, the Orange County scene. There was a little bit of fragmenting going on where people from one scene didnít want to be part of another scene, and I just wanted to play music. I really didnít want to be in any kind of scene and Vancouver was just such a different place. The scene was smaller and it just didnít have that fragmentation. It just seemed like everybody was into the same thing.

Since it was such a small scene youíd have multiple bands sharing members. Youíd have Dimwit or Chuck Biscuits in five different bands. Youíd have people playing in one band and singing in another band, you know? It was just like more vibrant, more fresh, more organic, and it hadnít been spoiled yet, which really caught my attention.

So we go back to LA and do a show at a place called the Fleetwood in Redondo Beach, which is like two blocks away from where Dez and I lived, and at that time a lot of the Orange County crowd started coming in. You know, there were a lot of great bands that came out of that scene, but there was an energy coming out of that scene that just didnít resonate with me. The scene was pretty violent. Donít get me wrong, there was a lot of shit to get angry about in this world, and there still is, but there is generating ďheatĒ and there is generating ďlight.Ē To me the OC scene was generating just a lot of heat and just didnít seem to being going anywhere for me.

We would be doing shows and I really felt that at any point in time that it wouldnít matter about what I was singing or saying because when the band started playing there was this thing that was going on in the audience that was completely detached from what was going on on the stage. Here I was kicking my ass on that stage and I honestly didnít feel like anybody cared. In the audience I had some friends that were getting hurt and I really didnít want to be part of it anymore. It wasnít a conscious decision to leave the band completely but at that point I just walked off the stage. I had had enough of it and I was just like, ďSee ya,Ē because I didnít want to be the soundtrack to what was going on.

When I walked off the stage the band kept playing, and they kept on playing and playing and playing as if nothing ever happened. And so I though that if the crowd doesnít care, and if the band doesnít care, then that is good enough for me. When I left there were not great animosities. You know, there was this thing happening up the coast that I was really into and I just decided to go and check that out.

There is a story that you moved to Vancouver but had to return to LA in order to record the Jealous Again EP. Was their anything strange about that given that you had just walked off of the stage in the middle of a set and quit the band?

We had already started recording what was going to be a full-length album, and many of the songs that ended up on the Damaged album were already recorded, or were in the process of being recorded, or were at least already written. Just like with Redd Cross I had no experience in the studio, and I certainly had no experience with being a singer, so recording was difficult for me. I was very spontaneous and I loved live shows. I loved giving everything that I had for 30 or 45 minutes, and some of our sets were like 20-minutes. But you can really kick out the jams for 30-minutes.

So when you have to sing the song over and over again, and remember that Greg is a bit of a perfectionist, not that it wasnít raw and intense and real, but there was an element of ďletís get this right.Ē I lost my interest in being in the studio real fast. I am sure that Spot, who was recording the record, had a hard time with me because I just wasnít into it. I really didnít like it. I didnít like recording at all.

The first couple of sessions when I was still in the band must have been pretty bad. But after I had quit the band, and at that point it was obvious that I had quit the band and was not coming back, there was no desire for me to go back at all. We had started something and Greg wanted for me to finish that, and so I agreed. We went back into the studio to finish up the recording and seemed to go really smoothly, which I believe surprised everybody.

Maybe it was because I just wanted to get the recording over with, but the recording went quite smoothly, and it was actually quite fun. It is weird how things worked out, but I really enjoyed it. Spot was a great engineer. At that point things just seemed to loosen up a lot and we finished recording what would become the Jealous Again EP.

Your name isnít Chavo Pederast, so how did you feel when you first picked up the EP after it came out?

After I recorded the EP, I moved from California up to Vancouver. It may have been a month, or maybe even a year later, and I was in a record store in Vancouver looking through the records. Somebody had told me that the new Black Flag record just came out, and so I went and found it, and there it was; Jealous Again. So I picked up the record and turned it over and saw that they had this vocalist named Chavo Pedarast, and I was like, ďOh, cool, they got a new singer.Ē I wasnít really in touch at the time so I didnít know what was going on, and so I put my money on the counter and I bought the EP. I brought it home and put it on my record player and was like, ďMan, this new singer sounds an awful lot like me.Ē Sure enough it was me, except for the last song where Chuck is singing.

So I was looking at it and thinking, ďChavo Pedarast? Where did that come from?Ē You know that when I was in the band I didnít have an alias, nor did anybody else have an alias. Even Chuck was going by his real name at the time, so none of us used knick names; and certainly I wasnít calling myself Chavo Pedarast, so that was a little weird.

It took me a little while to figure out the connotations of the name, the negative connotations associated with it and the fact that it refers to being a pedophile. That sort of pissed me off a little bit. To be honest I really didnít care at the time because I was young and dumb, and I just didnít care. But later on in life that name kind of had some negative connotations for some of the things that I was doing at the time in my life, and certainly I was around my kids and stuff, so I was a little bit concerned. There were times where my kids were like, ďHey, dad, we heard that you were in this band called Black Flag and your name was Chavo Pedarast. What does Chavo Pedarast mean,Ē which was kind of weird to have to explain that.

There were a lot of bands documented pretty thoroughly in the film Decline of Western Civilization. What separated Black Flag from the rest of them?

You know, honestly, all of those bands that came from that era had built their sound and image out of what was coming out of New York and what was coming out of London, and it was like, ďWe are going to be like the Pistols or the Ramones,Ē bands that had been established already. I am pretty convinced that the people in Black Flag were completely oblivious to all of that kind of stuff. It is not that they didnít listen to that stuff, because I know that the guys were into the Ramones and stuff like that, but I donít think that it ever entered into their consciousness that they wanted to be or look like that.

Visually, they were completely different because there was nothing remotely cool or dignified about the way that Black Flag looked. They dressed in clothes that looked like something your dad would wear. There was nothing cool about Greg Ginn. But all of those guys were just visually so different.

You would go into Hollywood and all of the bands had some kind of look, some kind of image, something that was marketable to some degree. You could actually visualize them on a cover of a magazine. Black Flag, though, looked like poor old men from the beaches. It was just so bizarre.

So, visually they were so different, but sonically, and still today, the sound of Greg Ginnís guitar was just so brutal and so intense, and you couldnít say that he listened to, and tried to model his sound, after Johnny Thunders, or even anything. Who did Greg Ginn sound like? I donít know. His sound was just so completely different from anything that Iíd ever heard. It was just so intense. It was just so powerful.

The first time that Iíd seen them live, I was like, ďOkay, this is way, way, way, way different than anything that Iíve seen up to this point.Ē

And Chuckís bass, we used to kid around with him and say that his bass sounded like a muffler being dragged along under a car. The closest thing that I can think of that comes anywhere close to Chuckís sound is Lemmy from Motorhead. Chuckís bass sound was not Dee Dee Ramone. It wasnít Sid Vicious. It sounded completely different, and for that none of the bands in LA came anywhere close to them.

Black Flag is credited for a rather intense work eithic, especially during the Rollins Era. How was the work ethic shaping up when you were in the band?

The Black Flag work ethic is unparalleled. I just donít think that there is anything in the Punk Rock world that comes anywhere close. I am sure that there are a lot of bands that tried to pattern themselves after it, and some may have succeeded to some degree, but I donítí know.

At the time in Vancouver, DOA really had something going on then, too. Their work ethic was amazing as well, but in LA, I donít know if anybody else even came close. There was a real DIY attitude that Greg Ginn had because he had to. Remember, we werenít part of the Hollywood scene, and there wasnít a South Bay scene. The South Bay scene was Black Flag, and we had to do it ourselves because nobody was going to do it for us. Nobody loved Black Flag during those times; nobody was knocking down the door asking to be part of this. It was just very unappealing to a lot of people, and I am sure that all of the Hollywood bands were just like not into them either, so we had to do it ourselves.

Greg already had SST electronics. He was a business owner so he knew what it was like to do that, to be a business owner and do what it took to keep your business afloat and prosper, and so I am sure that he took that attitude with his band. I am serious when I say that I never saw Greg Ginn doing anything that wasnít in some way related to Black Flag or SST records. If he wasnít working with his business, SST Electronics, he was writing songs, or he and his brother were doing posters. It was just so intense. It wasnít a part time thing.

I donít know why, whether he had some crazy idea of taking over the world, but he seemed to be born to do that. Well, he and Chuck too. Me and Keith and Robo were dedicated to a far lesser degree. Keith and I were probably way more interested in finding where the next six-pack was coming from, where the next party was.

It is not as though we didnít work hard because Greg and Chuck wouldnít allow us to just sit on our ass and be part-timers. It was very clear that this was something that was all-or-nothing. I think that it came primarily from Greg, and then Chuck was in there too. However, much later after I left the band Chuck became more involved in that aspect of the work ethic, especially when he became part of SST records.

When you were singing for Black Flag did you ever envision the legacy that the band would let behind?

When I was in Black Flag there would have been no way that I could envision anything past the evening, let alone it lasting a quarter of a century, and me being here getting interviewed for my part in it. There was just no way that I would have thought about it at the time, and I probably wouldnít have though about that for any band from that time period.

By that time the Sex Pistols had already broken up and I didnít have any conscious idea of where this was going at all. So, again, no.

I did notice, however, something unique and that the energy level was different. Things that are different and unique tend to last, and even in The Decline movie there are some bands in there that even seem fresh today as it was back then. Then again, there are a few bands in there that that are a little less fresh.

Now, in 2009, with all of the documentation and information surfacing, there is a lot of talk about Black Flag being one of the best Hardcore Punk bands of all times. Would that be a fair assessment in your eyes?

You know, it is 2009 and we are talking about Black Flag, and all of this stuff happened nearly 30 years ago. That just says something right there. We are talking about something that happened over thirty years ago and it is still fresh, and you are still finding new people that are committed to the band.

I know a lot of people that are into Punk Rock and they are into a lot of the bands. These people, in most cases, are passionate about Punk Rock music, but I donít think that there is a Black Flag fan that isnít super passionate about Black Flag. This passion is probably just a little bit different than the feeling that Iíve come across for a lot of other bands. It is not totally unique, because there are some other bands out there with loyal followings, but this is a passion connected to anything that is related to the band Black Flag.

Letís face it, if you are willing to go out and get a Black Flag tattoo, that is a pretty hardcore statement about your passion for something. You donít get tattooed about the cereal that you eat in the morning. You know that it means something to you if you are going to be barred for life. It is definitely something that has definitely transcended what a lot of other bands have done. That is not to disrespect any of the band that came out of that era, and even later, but it is something that transcends all of that if you are willing to wear it as a tattoo.

A lot has been written about Black Flag, and the fact is that I was only in the band for a short time. The part of the work ethic that you are talking about was just developing when I was in the band, and I think that it only became more intense and more hardcore after I left it. By the time Henry came into the band the work ethic had become a lifestyle and there were many more people involved in it. SST Electronics had faded away and SST Records became its own entity, and there were more people involved.

There was a group of people that came onto the scene like Mugger and those guys. They really helped build that lifestyle. There were a lot of people who were sleeping under tables and donating 24-7 of their energy into this Black Flag machine. It was definitely everything and more than youíve heard about, and it probably wasnít as glamorous as it is made out to be. It was really some hard work.

In 1982 I was invited back to do a reunion show at the Santa Monica Civic Center with the Misfits. Greg asked me to come down and we had a couple of rehearsals, and that is the first time that I saw the new Black Flag with Henry, and with Bill on drums. This band rehearsed for like 8 hours straight. It was just inhuman the amount of work that they put into a 30 or 40-minute set. I donít know if any other band has ever done that. Maybe they have, but it was pretty incredible.

Just seeing people coming into the SST world and giving it everything they had to help build something. You know that it wasnít all glamorous, and some shit went down. It wasnít all fun and games. Maybe some people werenít treated right. And maybe some people werenít given the proper respect that deserved. I am sure that a lot of people worked a lot of long hours and didnít get paid. There might be some issues that way, you know?

Even Iíve been contacted people who want to help me recoup some of those losses, but I am not interested in anything like that, but I can understand where some people might feel ripped off or whatever. It is not my thing.

Who was your favorite Black Flag lineup?

Without a doubt my favorite Black Flag lineup is the one that I just mentioned with Henry on Vocals and Bill on Drums around the My War and Slip it in Era.

When I went down to CA for the reunion show they were rehearsing and playing those songs, and they just blew my mind. I went on to see them a few more times up in San Francisco and up in Vancouver, and to me Henry Rollins is the definitive Black Flag singer. You are going to have a lot of people out there that are going to be very passionate about whether the love Henry or hate Henry, and I can understand that. However, to me he was the definitive Black Flag singer.

I think that there is something to be said that the band ended with Henry Rollins. The band didnít end with Keith, and it didnít end with me, and it didnít end with Dez, but it did end with Henry. There is a lot in there, but I think that there is something to be said for that.

I saw Kira play, and I thought that was just great. But Chuckís bass playing was just a monster. Yeah, so that lineup is my favorite.